Anyone visiting the Yucatan peninsula should take a day to go swimming in a cenote. It’s a magical experience even without diving into the underwater caves (they have some scary signs with warnings about that).
> There’s a symbiotic relationship between the passionate and technical cave explorers who investigate every hole in a cave in their free time (and just for fun) and those in the scientific community who want to study these prehistoric materials but cannot reach where they’re hidden in the underwater darkness.
The lack of cavers in general is becoming a bigger and bigger problem in archaeology and paleoanthropology. Since a lot of archaic human species were quite a bit smaller, they managed to make very elaborate caves their home that are hard for the average adult to navigate. Underwater archaeology is still in its infancy so the training isn't explicitly part of anyone's education.
Last year there was a story [1] on the front page about research into Homo naledi in the Rising Star Cave [2] that was only made possible because they were able to find six petite paleoanthropologists cavers who were able to fit through a "vertically oriented 'chimney' or 'chute' measuring 12 m (39 ft) long with an average width of 20 cm (7.9 in)" to the Dinaledi room in the back of the cave. They found 1,500 human bones there and still have a lot left to excavate.
Diving in the cenotes is pretty damn awesome though! You just have to make sure to dive the ones that have been explored and have designated routes. My third and fourth dives after getting my open water certification were in cenotes around Playa Del Carmen and that experience was just mind blowing. Would love to do it again.
He also has some amazing IMAX footage of cenotes, among other caves, in his film Ancient Caves, which is still playing on a few IMAX screens, though it's run is mostly over. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSZL9YbXDGs
NASA worked with a commercial partner to develop the SUNFISH [1][2] for future exploration of Europa. It's been used to explore underwater caves and they have a video showing the generated data from Peacock Springs [3]
will probably never get those commas, hopefully wont need them because this video by Polish students made one of my 'retirement projects' "underwater ROV"
> Among the many extinct species that lived in this region are members of the family Megalonychidae (including the genus Megalonyx, Greek for “large claw”). Fossils of these giant ground sloths are commonly found in the caves, as they probably took refuge within them, such as members of the genus Xibalbaonyx (“great claw of Xibalba”), a polar bear-sized ground sloth with big claws that measured up to 12 feet in height and weighed nearly a ton. They are joined by members of related families, including the genus Nothrotheriops, a grizzly bear-sized mammal that reached five feet tall and weighed 1,000 pounds.
It's unfortunate DNA doesn't preserve well in humid environments. Those many bones could provide a lot of genetic information otherwise.
A well-known example is the figure of a woman at the entrance of Cenote Dos Ojos; while it was not sculpted as such, it is a carefully selected speleothem that resembles the silhouette of a woman and was intentionally exhibited on a pedestal to decorate the cave entrance, evidence of paleoart from more than 8,000 years ago that anyone can visit.
Okay, Australian Outback holes weren't what I was thinking of. Was mainly thinking about the ability to get a wireless connection underground being pretty rough, especially when it's a cave filled with water. (Sonar based wireless? Sofi?)
Fibre in a cable would work, as would regular ethernet cable - many tourist caves are wired for light show effects.
There are a good number of caves (eg: one former tourist cave on a property I once owned in the WA S'West Karri forrest) that have solution pipes that go straight down from the surface into the roofs of various chambers - they're good for running cable.
Circling back to mining, underground mines can be vast systems of tunnels with custom trucks and trains running about in addition to borehole machines and other stuff - Mining Comms is a whole field with hybrid cable + transmitter (with repeater) hubs, etc.
Not saying this is cheap or easy, but it's all doable - and for the DIY home handy type it can cost time and effort rather than money if they have access to mining auctions | closing down | old stock etc.
Somewhere in the long dark ago I saw a human interest story about a hermit who made himself a house in a cave. It was still a cave, but it was clear that someone at least slightly civilized lived there.
Caves like these always make me think of what might be beneath the surface of Mars, Europa, or many other bodies in the solar system with sub-surface oceans.
Been living in the Yucatan the last couple of years. The Mayans believe that cenotes are gateways to the underworld, so it's kinda on point. When people are having bad luck (injuries etc) and there is one nearby, they will pray and make offerings to the spirits that inhabit them. And if that doesn't work they will fire guns into them to scare them away.
Anyone visiting the Yucatan peninsula should take a day to go swimming in a cenote. It’s a magical experience even without diving into the underwater caves (they have some scary signs with warnings about that).
> There’s a symbiotic relationship between the passionate and technical cave explorers who investigate every hole in a cave in their free time (and just for fun) and those in the scientific community who want to study these prehistoric materials but cannot reach where they’re hidden in the underwater darkness.
The lack of cavers in general is becoming a bigger and bigger problem in archaeology and paleoanthropology. Since a lot of archaic human species were quite a bit smaller, they managed to make very elaborate caves their home that are hard for the average adult to navigate. Underwater archaeology is still in its infancy so the training isn't explicitly part of anyone's education.
Last year there was a story [1] on the front page about research into Homo naledi in the Rising Star Cave [2] that was only made possible because they were able to find six petite paleoanthropologists cavers who were able to fit through a "vertically oriented 'chimney' or 'chute' measuring 12 m (39 ft) long with an average width of 20 cm (7.9 in)" to the Dinaledi room in the back of the cave. They found 1,500 human bones there and still have a lot left to excavate.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36344397
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Star_Cave
Diving in the cenotes is pretty damn awesome though! You just have to make sure to dive the ones that have been explored and have designated routes. My third and fourth dives after getting my open water certification were in cenotes around Playa Del Carmen and that experience was just mind blowing. Would love to do it again.
A friend of mine made a bunch of films about his cenote diving. This one give a pretty good idea of what it's like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99z8JgxdDmc
He also has some amazing IMAX footage of cenotes, among other caves, in his film Ancient Caves, which is still playing on a few IMAX screens, though it's run is mostly over. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSZL9YbXDGs
Seems like small cave exploration robots are well within reach for current technology.
Any HN billionaire up for funding the development?
NASA worked with a commercial partner to develop the SUNFISH [1][2] for future exploration of Europa. It's been used to explore underwater caves and they have a video showing the generated data from Peacock Springs [3]
[1] https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/explorations/22sunfish/featur...
[2] https://sunfishinc.com/
[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpKFkrUeF9o
will probably never get those commas, hopefully wont need them because this video by Polish students made one of my 'retirement projects' "underwater ROV"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2kChvtPxyw
they're hurrying along though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZucylrwaK0
A submarine drone could probably be done as a hobby project with a fairly limited budget.
I'm curious, is the theory that Homo naledi carried their dead through that tiny shaft to be buried there or was there another way in?
How small do you have to be to do this kind of work?
> Among the many extinct species that lived in this region are members of the family Megalonychidae (including the genus Megalonyx, Greek for “large claw”). Fossils of these giant ground sloths are commonly found in the caves, as they probably took refuge within them, such as members of the genus Xibalbaonyx (“great claw of Xibalba”), a polar bear-sized ground sloth with big claws that measured up to 12 feet in height and weighed nearly a ton. They are joined by members of related families, including the genus Nothrotheriops, a grizzly bear-sized mammal that reached five feet tall and weighed 1,000 pounds.
It's unfortunate DNA doesn't preserve well in humid environments. Those many bones could provide a lot of genetic information otherwise.
A well-known example is the figure of a woman at the entrance of Cenote Dos Ojos; while it was not sculpted as such, it is a carefully selected speleothem that resembles the silhouette of a woman and was intentionally exhibited on a pedestal to decorate the cave entrance, evidence of paleoart from more than 8,000 years ago that anyone can visit.
Are there any images of this?
That photography... wow!
More here: https://www.martinbroen.com/#/cave-exploration/
That's completely insane and... Beautiful!
Such amazing photography of those underwater caves.
Wow, 3 of my favorite things in one place.
If there was also an HN flame war about RTO vs. WFH down there I might never leave.
Can't WFH in a cave...
Sure you can: https://www.airbnb.com.au/rooms/9906314 (one of many)
Coober Pedy's a long standing still active mining "cave" town - and there are others about the globe, some going back a thousand years and more.
Okay, Australian Outback holes weren't what I was thinking of. Was mainly thinking about the ability to get a wireless connection underground being pretty rough, especially when it's a cave filled with water. (Sonar based wireless? Sofi?)
Fibre in a cable would work, as would regular ethernet cable - many tourist caves are wired for light show effects.
There are a good number of caves (eg: one former tourist cave on a property I once owned in the WA S'West Karri forrest) that have solution pipes that go straight down from the surface into the roofs of various chambers - they're good for running cable.
Circling back to mining, underground mines can be vast systems of tunnels with custom trucks and trains running about in addition to borehole machines and other stuff - Mining Comms is a whole field with hybrid cable + transmitter (with repeater) hubs, etc.
Not saying this is cheap or easy, but it's all doable - and for the DIY home handy type it can cost time and effort rather than money if they have access to mining auctions | closing down | old stock etc.
Somewhere in the long dark ago I saw a human interest story about a hermit who made himself a house in a cave. It was still a cave, but it was clear that someone at least slightly civilized lived there.
Entire old Italian villages on peak outcrops were built by cutting into the limestone leading to a montage of { caves + stone houses }.
There was a chap from that family background (he was born in the UK perhaps but his father wasn't) who rennovated an Ye old Englishe cave dwelling ...
https://www.granddesignsmagazine.com/grand-designs-houses/th...
There are channels carved out in the rock for cabling and wood fire chimmneys, etc.
Also bookable for retreats: https://www.therockhouseretreat.co.uk/
My productivity is so much higher in a cave. MBA types just don’t get it. It’s all about protecting their above-ground real estate interests.
Caves like these always make me think of what might be beneath the surface of Mars, Europa, or many other bodies in the solar system with sub-surface oceans.
Imagine being in the first submarine on Europa.
And finding human remains
...under "a few" to 20 kilometers of ice even.
* Richard Greenberg suggests "a few" kilometers. * Robert Pappalardo suggests ~20 kilometers.
How do you make cave diving scarier? Skulls. Turns out the answer is half-buried human skulls.
Been living in the Yucatan the last couple of years. The Mayans believe that cenotes are gateways to the underworld, so it's kinda on point. When people are having bad luck (injuries etc) and there is one nearby, they will pray and make offerings to the spirits that inhabit them. And if that doesn't work they will fire guns into them to scare them away.
Crabs. Click click.